CCCWC May competition voters’ comments

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A clue to MORGUE.
171 comments were received for this competition (from 13 competitors, 2 others)
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Comments on the competition
1.
An impressive array of different ideas, although not all stand up to close scrutiny. Not keen on references to "stiffs", which to me seems both hackneyed and tasteless. Are morgues really gruesome? Despite my comment to the judges along those lines, I don't really think so, so its use is rather facile.
2.
I do find some of the clues which claim to be &lit and aren't a bit tiring and wish some entrants would just write a good normal clue. I am very tempted to start awarding nil points to false claims. There are a couple of brilliant 'normal' clues though 24 and 54 which I hope come tops.
3.
A noun with 4 distinct meanings this month and even more clues to rank. The majority (44) opted for the meaning of mortuary, with 4 of these extending the meaning (perhaps a little to far) to a room in which post-mortem dissections are performed (17, 26, 54 and 56). Of these, 30* and 42* in particular stood out from the rest. 3 clues opted for the more figurative meaning (6, 41* and 47) and a further 9 defined haughtiness/arrogance (3, 5, 8, 14, 33, 34, 38,42 and 49). Just two clues(2 and 37)tackled the remaining definition – the first of these was the only one managing to allude to another of the word's meanings in a well crafted &lit format. Once again anagrams proved popular, but once again there were a few faulty anagram indicators (5, 15, 26 and 44), with 2 clues missing anagrinds altogether (3 and 19). The rules here are relatively simple: verbs, adjectives and adverbs are OK as long as they indicate rearrangement of the anagram fodder. Clues in which the indicator is not adjacent to the fodder are certainly not fair to the solver. Given the subject matter, GRUESOME was a popular choice and as it contains all the letters needed offered the possibility of a simple subtraction clue (12, 16, 17, 24* (the pick of the bunch), 26, 27, 28, 35 and 56) as well as a more sophisticated compound anagram (2). Other popular choices were ROGUE (5, 22, 23, 37, 44 and 48) and GOURMET (1, 14 and 55). The possibility of hiding the answer in the clue was exploited in (5) cases, with varying success (13, 21, 31, 40* and 51). Finally, there were 5 clues using MORE as container for G and U (4, 30, 41, 47 and the excellent 49* which bagged top points).
4.
Not so easy to pick a winner this month so I have spread the marks around. Sometimes good definitions were marred by poor cryptic indications and vice versa.
5.
Some really good clues. Especially liked 4 12 and 21

Comments on the clues

1. A confused gourmet has no time for the dead here

1.	Wordplay might work better without leading article and with 'having no' or 'without' instead of 'has no'.
2.	Don't think the def. works
3.	'The dead here' seems a bit weak as a definition. Surface reading a bit strange

2. A gruesome editor wanting retrospective idea might go off to this store !

1.	I don't really think that the whole of the clue is a fair definition of morgue nor is all the clue involved in the wordplay.
2.	Anagram is rather over-compounded, and 'gruesome' seems forced in the surface reading
3.	I can't work this one out at all, sorry.

3. Add rum to his ego for haughtiness!

1.	nice surface reading, but 'his' seems superfluous and the anagram indicator is not clear to me.
2.	'His' seems otiose and there is no anagram indicator.
3.	'His' doesn't have a role in the wordplay, and the anagram isn't indicated
4.	'His'plays no part in the cryptic; Anagram indicator is missing.
5.	Breaks elementary cryptic crossword conventions – no anagram indicator and extraneous "his"
6.	what tells us that it's an anagram? What is the 'his' there for?
7.	This needs an anagram indicator. 'His' is superfluous

4. Additional houses go up regularly to make room for those who are late

1.	Really like the definition
2.	I think that the wordplay is superb and the definition fine but the two together don't make sense to me in the surface.
3.	Wordplay and definition are sound, but their combined surface reading lets the clue down.
4.	Would have given this top place if it had been 'housing starts to go up'
5.	quite clever but I don't think I would ever have solved it without the answer in front of me

5. Arrogance marks rogue organisation

1.	marks in the plural implied more than just m: mm, perhaps?
2.	'Organisation' is not really an anagram indicator and the rearrangement required is minimal.
3.	ok but rather bland
4.	Simplicity is sometimes best.
5.	I like this but have marked down because of the noun anagram indicator

6. Beryl needs a night off, reportedly saying "This is a depressing place"

1.	The wordplay is far too indirect and the definition too vague to be fair to the solver.
2.	Double homophone device is a bit of a stretch and "A saying B" would suggest that A not B is the def.
3.	don't like homophones, and this double one really does not work for me, sorry
4.	Original idea, but the double homophone indicator isn't necessary, and the def. is vague.

7. City killer holds bodies where they're likely to be found

1.	Wordplay is too convoluted and 'bodies' cannot be part of definition and wordplay.
2.	I find this type of clue where you have to establish that city killer = smog then treat it [in this case to get the body] is on a par with i
3.	ok I suppose

8. Coldness in France results in a stiff joint (6)

1.	nice surface reading, and unusual use of DD for this word.
2.	I can't see how 'results' fits in as there is no wordplay as such.
3.	A good try, but 'haughtiness' is really 'boldness', not 'coldness'
4.	Nice punning definition. Not sure about 'results in'
5.	Quite like this, would have probably added a question mark at the end though

9. Cool place for a stiff joint.

1.	Unsound, I'm afraid. You can't count 'stiff' as figuring in both definitions. 'Cool place for stiff, stiff joint' would have been sound.
2.	In double definition clues there should be no overlap between the two definitions and the two meanings defined should be different.
3.	Not really a double def, as both lead to the same meaning of morgue – see 8
4.	Not really a DD but two versions of the same punning definition based on "stiff", with "stiff" somewhat unfairly spanning both.
5.	overlaps so not good. also it's not classic double definition, it's two versions of the same definition
6.	Not a real DD. Both defs are of the same thing. 2nd def would require a separate dictionary entry like FR noun of haughtiness in Chambers

10. Dead centre (6)

1.	'Dead centre of town' works as a cryptic def. of 'graveyard' or 'cemetery', but 'Dead centre' alone is too vague for 'morgue' (see 46)
2.	A simple and pleasing cryptic def that really stands out – my favourite
3.	With no wordplay this could be clue to graveyard, heaven, hell, etc.
4.	Seems like a reasonable cryptic definition, but has a two-word clue ever won this comp?

11. Decapitated slain dead left a-mouldering foully here

1.	The first anagram indicator is missing and the non-enhanced definition is weak.
2.	Nice wordplay that really needs a question mark
3.	Def.is too specific.

12. Dishearteningly gruesome building?

1.	Not much to say except well done.
2.	A morgue isn't necessarily a building more often they are rooms in hospitals.
3.	Good definition, wordplay rather strained
4.	Almost, but fails for me because "dishearten" can't be intransitive.
5.	is dishearteningly adequate to mean disheartened?
6.	I don't think morgues are gruesome, certainly not the buildings they are housed in.

13. Get stiff lying here, in a hotel room or guest house.

1.	I don't think that hidden clues should contain extra words as in 'a hotel & house'.
2.	Good idea, but 'a hotel/house' is surplus

15. Grim house Twist made his escape from?

1.	'made' is not really an anagram indicator and the overall wordplay is rather strained

16. Gruesome crash losing ends of three fingers – but not a case for here!

1.	OK, but not a compound anagram.
2.	I am not too happy with the definition in this clue.
3.	'crash' is not really an anagram indicator

17. Gruesome location in which heart is cut out

1.	I am not sure that location is an acceptable anagram indicator.
2.	'location' is not really an anagram indicator, otherwise the wordplay is strained.
3.	Good surface, unconvinced by 'location' as an anagram indicator

19. Guestroom where sot is left out for dead

1.	I fail to see how this is &lit and I don't see how either the wordplay or definition quite work.
2.	No anagram indicators and not really a definition of morgue.
3.	'For dead' isn't part of the wordplay, nor is it a definition
4.	No anagram indicator unless it's "out" but then "left" looks a bit lonely. NOT a comp. anag. anyway.
5.	This is structured as an anag. minus anag. but without any anagram indicators! Not & lit, as 'for dead' forms no part of the wordplay

20. Gutted antelope put in extra cold storage

1.	Wordplay is rather convoluted and definition a bit vague
2.	I think the surface needs "extra-cold" with a hyphen, otherwise not bad.

21. Having tumor, guess I'll end up here

1.	Haven't come across too many hidden &lits. Like this one, the American spelling notwithstanding.
2.	I can't see how the hidden indicator works and I don't see how it can claim that all the clue is involved in the wordplay.
3.	The container indicator feels a bit weak to me, as does the US spelling.
4.	A 'hidden word' clue – as an & lit it should ideally be shorter, it doesn't have a proper hidden indicator and relies on American for tumour
5.	I can't see how 'having' points to the inner letters
6.	That's what I call pessimism (or realism, since most of us probably will.) US spelling of tumour, or a mistake?

22. Head of Mafia's an awful rogue, keen to have his enemies sent here?

1.	Nice idea, the superfluous 'an' spoils it for me though
2.	Wordplay doesn't need " 's an ", no independent definition.

23. Head of MI6 on dashing rogue: "The bod was dying to go there."

1.	No one dies in order to go to a morgue, do they?
2.	Perhaps 'dashed' would be a better anagram indicator ?
3.	Bizarre surface reading.

24. Here lies the cadaver – terribly gruesome, with heart missing.

1.	Terrific clue and refreshingly no false claim of &lit!
2.	Best of the many gru(es)ome clues

25. Instrument supporting dead body mostly in funereal place

1.	'in' is otiose in wordplay and definition

26. It could be gruesome display with insides torn out (6)

1.	Not sure what 'display' is doing in the wordplay
2.	'display' is not really an anagram indicator, definition rather imprecise

27. It's possibly gruesome, where inanimate bodies ultimately get taken

1.	The wordplay is a little strained, otherwise perhaps 'expired souls initially' would be more accurate for the definition.
2.	"Inanimate" is surely redundant in the surface reading, just shoehorned in for its last letter.

28. It's spookily gruesome with no place for endless rest

1.	Anagram indicator seems a bit iffy here, 'spookily gruesome' doesn't sound quite right.
2.	Definition seems confusing

29. I've not half morbid guests!

1.	I would say that 'not half' is unfair as an indicator to lose the latter halves of two words. It would need not halves.
2.	Nice & lit., though it's really 'halves', not 'half'
3.	'morbid' = sickly rather than dead

30. I've room for late arrivals, taking in extra couple of guests

1.	I wouldn't be happy with couple of guests for GU.
2.	Perhaps 'further accommodating a couple of guests' would be less strained

31. Late arrivals accommodated in dorm or guesthouse

1.	Wouldn't it need to be accommodation for the definition to work?
2.	Def doesn't define a noun
3.	The definition requires 'here' after accommodated
4.	Neat idea but could be strengthened by 'Here late arrivals are accommodated etc'
5.	This doesn't seem to define a noun

32. Late arrivals get a cool reception here (6)

1.	Not keen on clues without wordplay in the comp
2.	Nice one. Top marks.
3.	I rarely give points to simple cryptic definitions but I quite like this

33. Miranda on the fiddle? Such hubris more characteristic of, say, Julius Caesar

1.	Miranda = mor is too oblique
2.	The opening sentence is clever, but the rest seems a bit long-winded and obscure.
3.	'Miranda' for MOR doesn't really work, sorry.

34. Moral guide reveals arrogance, when poorly laid out.

1.	The wordplay is nice but the surface doesn't do anything for me.
2.	Not a great surface but otherwise a sound clue.

35. New gruesome arrangement (excluding Southern England initially) for keeping dead bodies.

1.	I can't see a suitable definition.
2.	Definition and wordplay seem to overlap. Excluding Southern England initially, new gruesome facility for keeping dead bodies
3.	'For keeping dead bodies' doesn't define a noun

36. Observation room where you go after you finally quit smoking! (6)

1.	Both definitions too vague, surface reading not great

37. Organised master rogue archives

1.	Not a great surface but otherwise a sound clue.
2.	An original approach.

38. Our Meg, recollected for haughtiness

1.	Ok clue. but I don't think Maggie was ever called Meg
2.	'Meg' doesn't really evoke Maggie T
3.	Surely it was always Maggie, not Meg.

39. Parlour? Our game's played without one!

1.	I don't think that a parlour (even a funeral one) is a morgue.
2.	I think a funeral parlour is a different thing
3.	"One" for "a" is debatable.

40. Part of dorm (or guesthouse) providing accommodation for latecomers?

1.	I would have preferred 'late arrivals'.
2.	Best constructed of the hiddens

41. Person unknown abandoned in rather depressing place

1.	'in' is otiose in wordplay and definition

42. Pout about Greek stuck-up haughtiness (6)

1.	Plausible surface and succinct clue. Good.
2.	Not a great surface but otherwise a sound clue.

43. Republican group has expressed discontent about conservation area

1.	Clever wordplay and def, but I can't find evidence for G=group, only 'Group of'
2.	Definition too vague, not seen RG before, moue = expression of discontent

44. Rogue treatment follows mark for late collection

1.	'treatment' is not really an anagram indicator.

45. Second to debate topless in room full of stiffs?

1.	A bizarre surface reading
2.	'in' is otiose in wordplay and definition, surface reading is nonsense

46. stiff setting? (6)

1.	Like clue 10, this is a rather vague definition.
2.	What is the surface meant to indicate?

47. Store viol in rather gloomy place

1.	Not a great surface but otherwise a sound clue.

48. Street murders brought to public attention – rogue monkey's lead suspect

1.	Nice idea to link definition & wordplay but the wording for the definition seems slightly off to me
2.	An nice semi &lit (definition + wordplay which extends the definition), although the orang-utan isn't a monkey of course.
3.	A very good clue, and a pretty accurate plot summary
4.	Pity an orangutan is an ape, not a monkey.

49. Take nothing away from captain Bobby, inspiring good United side

1.	Would have got my vote if only I could understand how "take nothing away from" indicates deletion of "go". Sorry if being dense.
2.	Clearest winner for many a month. Beautiful!
3.	Very nice clue. Come on you Irons!

50. Temporary accommodation for John and Jane?

1.	Without wordplay this is a little obscure.
2.	A bit weak as a cryptic def – needs wordplay – see 53

51. The non-living section in a dorm or guesthouse (6)

1.	I am not sure that section is right and the 'a' rather spoils the hidden wordplay.
2.	good if slightly contrived container. worth a mark.
3.	No clear definition, perhaps 'of' would be neater than 'in'.
4.	Nice idea but not sure about the definition here

52. To Poe's rue, where the bodies are despatched

1.	"Poe's rue" is too much of a giveaway.
2.	An extended definition, but no wordplay.

53. Where John or Jane might reside if procedure is followed by urge to change.

1.	'procedure' for MO is not a general convention.

54. Where to see PM mocking opposition leaders about housing fiddle?

1.	Crikey, what a fantastic clue. I am not sure that I would have solved it but I still think it is brilliant.
2.	A nice clue, but it doesn't need a '?'
3.	Nicely constructed, clever def
4.	Professionally done!
5.	The best of this bunch I think. Well disguised definition

55. Where you might find stiff rum, e.g., shaken with egg, and gourmet endlessly carousing

1.	I liked it up to the end of egg. That's enough to make a full clue. I'm not convinced of the need of the double wordplay – it's not like it
2.	Don't like the stiff clues much but this is good enough to make an exception. Better without the last 4 words.
3.	It's an intriguing surface and I'm left wondering where this place is !

56. Wherein gruesome extractions are removed extremely messily

1.	Definition and wordplay both rather messy !
2.	Not convinced by this as a definition.

57. With 50% attrition, Mons battle lost – are the dead found lying there?

1.	The hyphen and question mark interfere with wordplay and definition respectively.
2.	Wordplay spoiled by punctuation
3.	50% is half – using percentage figures without good reason does nothing for a clue.

58. You order a thousand more for the storeroom.

1.	'Order you …' required for the full anagram
2.	don't like you=u as it doesn't – it sounds like 'u'. Also, clue says U then anagram of GMORE – nothing to suggest U is in the mix.
3.	You is not u, and the clue points to it being the first letter anyway: UMORGE?
4.	The anagram indicator is in the middle of the fodder here, also I don't agree that you = u, they just sound the same